A conversation with Riken Yamamoto
Riken Yamamoto, 2024 Pritzker Prize winner, visited Jakarta on 14 & 15 November 2024 for a public lecture1 that I moderated. Outside of that engagement, Yamamoto-Sensei insisted on not visiting major architectural landmarks. Instead, he went to the following kampungs over the course of those two days: Poncol (with Andesh Tomo), Balokan, Kunir, and Akuarium.
His lecture was crowd splitting: not only did he not show any of his building work, Yamamoto-Sensei was focused on presenting his perspectives on the way communities govern and shape the forms of their own settlements. He visited Manila, Guatemala city, and the barrios of Caracas—where he acknowledged the role of Hugo Chavez in supporting the urban poor. He was particularly critical of skyscrapers, seeing them as foreign investment machines that put people out to dry. The irony was not lost on me as the lecture was held in one. After it was over, my Instagram DM was filled with some expressing their disappointment at the lack of any design showcase, and others feeling inspired and energized that an architect of his stature demonstrates that kind of commitment to informal settlements.
Over the course of two days, I chatted with Yamamoto-Sensei. Below is what was recorded by his assistant, Taiki Akiba-San, of the conversation where we2 finally took a break at Kunir Galeri. Apologies for the abrupt ending.
Riken Yamamoto: I visit this place to see the kampungs. I did not expect such a successful example. Here, the kampung is very successful, I think. We should make some kind of relation between Japanese university and your office. And Okabe-San from Tokyo University can help you with your intention on how create future design. We can do that very quickly. The important thing is the money, and we can get that for design, not for construction. The design is very important.
Kamil Muhammad: The design phase took us 5 years with no money. We just came on Saturday and Sunday and worked together here. Before there was anything.
Riken Yamamoto: That's right, so now we should get the money [laughs]. [To a Japanese student] You know Okabe-Sensei? Would you ask her to help them? She can. I will contact her too. She will handle the rest. Talk to ODA, Official Development Assistance [a government-to-government agency]. Okabe-Sensei knows the system.
All of you should create a future plan for this kampung. Keep the structural system. This is really good for the city. Kyoto has the same system as kampung. They have very good shop in front of the house. It's called both-side street [where buildings face each other in a narrow street]. There were a lot of both-side-street in Japan, but destroyed by the Americans during WWII.
All of the city was burned by American forces. All of the system was destroyed and they made new ones that you see: skyscrapers, wide streets--they are very easy to control with no community inside. Similar to what happens to kampungs.
It's very easy to control the people if they have no community. It's called centralization. In Japan, there is always this change towards centralization. And all over the world, too. It's a very dangerous time. In America, Trump would like to make such a change. Indonesia, also.
[points at Indri] You are very important, especially with your relation to the government.
Indri Yuliyani3: Yeah, the residents cooperative communicates with the housing agency.
Riken Yamamoto: People in kampung lives as a part of a government system. So architects need to investigate and design. I will make a [inaudible] city in Venezuela. I visited Manila and met an architect, and he will do that [investigate and design]. He's working for the government in Manila.
So you have to plan it. How to make the infrastructure, the transportation system, you should think about everything--with the kampung! And it's not so difficult for you, because you are from Indonesia.
My intention is for all the city I visited, they all want to make to something. But the condition is very similar. Manilla, Guatemala. Discrimination exists between the rich and the poor. Many believe kampung people are very poor. It's not true. They are very rich. They have a big community.
Teguh Aryanto4: In the old dictatorial regime, the government used the community to threaten those with idealism.
Riken Yamamoto: When is the election?
Teguh Aryanto: We already had a presidential election about a month ago. Now it's the election for the governor of Jakarta. The result will come next month. One of the candidates is an architect.
Shout out to Jakarta Architecture Festival and IAI Jakarta for the opportunity, and Taiki Aiba and Richard Susilo for accompanying Riken Yamamoto.
At one point there was around 15 young(ish) architects joining in the conversation with the residents of Kunir.
Indri Yuliyani is the head of Kampung Kunir Co-Operative.
Teguh Aryanto, or Gigo, is the current head of IAI (architects association) Jakarta chapter.